Saturday, March 29, 2008

Freedom Or Bondage

I passed by a Blog this morning, belonging to who is now a good friend of ours and had to stop and make a comment and to encourage her to continue to write more. What I will do here is to copy a piece of it here and then follow up with my comments to her post. Some of you will be informed and some may take difference. Either way tell us what you think!

From: Tsaneen

living together in harmony


Thursday, February 21, 2008

Paul's "traditions" and church liturgy - Are they the same?

How is it when you begin looking into a subject your search takes you down many rabbit trails. I was reading II Thessalonians Chapter 2 when I came across verse 15

“Stand firm, and hold to the traditions which you were taught,
whether by word of mouth, or by letter from us.” (NASV)

The question arose “What are the traditions Paul is referring to here?”

This question occurred around about six weeks prior to a conversation with a friend who announced that he and his wife had become proponents of the liturgical practice of the Anglican Church. I was stunned by this news as previously they had been staunch participants in a close knit home church with no ritual or connection with the institutional church.

So my line of enquiry was broadened to cover more in depth searching of early church history. This process is taking some time – I’m not a fast reader. ... ... ... (Katch)



I see this has been posted for a while and wanting to encourage you to continue in penning your thoughts, I will add this belated comment.

>>>“What are the traditions Paul is referring to here?” <<<>

Rabbit Trails can be misleading. As I perused your post, and that as there is no way to research ‘Word Of Mouth’ that your observations from the well marked paths, i.e. In The Word appear to be valid.

No doubt, you were stunned by the extreme change in your friends approach to Worship. What is exciting to me is that The Living God has a unique relationship with each individual believer that is continually developing. Let me give you another example of this bizarre change seemingly going in what appears to be bondage to those of us that think we have been set free.

Two or three decades ago, fellowshipping in a Traditional Charismatic Assembly, a couple who we became friends with over the years, were having a rough time with marital communications. I, along with several others in leadership endeavored to help them along to no avail. After several years they had stopped fellowshipping with us and the next time we came across them they had found a Seventh Day Assembly and both of them were rejoicing in how it had really put their marriage together. Most of us in the TCA were incredulous, as the SDAs are very legalistic. Yet here was where God was meeting them in their need.

AnyHOO, pick your pen back up and make your God Ordain Contributions, so the rest of us may continue to benefit! But what do I know? 1 www.wonpreacher.com

Friday, March 28, 2008

Spiritual Revelation!

Loved Of The LORD, Whether it is 'Spiritual' or not, one must face the fact whether they are 'Trucking Down That Desirable Path' or not. I have been so wrapped up in my other sites and to get some projects up and running that I have let this love, kinda ... sorta ... fall to the side. Please do not give up on me and a little (Bunch if you got time) prayer to keep all things lined up, moving and giving GOD Glory! Here are a Couple other sites, should you not have found them on your own.

BOOKS Seniors Humorous Sarcasm.

The last posts will be alike, yet you can scroll down to get the jest and/or direction of each one. Leave a comment when you get there, it will be greatly appreciated!

Oh BTW! Take the SURVEY when you get to it or pick it up here: Click Here to take survey

Enough for now! Stay Blessed and I shall return!

Monday, March 17, 2008

Book review: 'Pagan Christianity?'

Since I am writing The Book, I would have you know that it is just not words that I enjoy writing down, yet also where the rubber meets the road. Here is one that I have read. Tell me what you think!

I read the first edition of ‘Pagan Christianity?’ several years ago on a recommendation of a long time colleague, friend and biz partner finding the information interesting and answering some long time Qs for myself.

Frank wrote then with what appeared to be a hatchet, tho I found it hard to disagree with him on many issues.

Reading this the 2008 edition now with a co-author, George Barna, it is less antagonistic, yet with no holds barred showing no Scriptural basis for they way we all hold Church today. It still maintains the Frank Viola flavor, though having never read Mr. Barna, I do not know if I would recognize his contributions.

My friend ‘Down Under’ who introduced me to Frank Viola, Gave me a ‘Heads Up’ that Frank and his current edition was drawing some fire, even to the point of rumors of ‘Book Burning’ in the air!

Frank begins with the premise that our church services today do not resemble what first century assembles looked like recorded in the New Testament. I have to say that with only three decades of partaking of Traditional Church and being extremely active in the service of the same most of that time, I had my questions about what went on. No doubt, a majority of my inquiry to what was going on was a reflection of my character. e.g I questioned why there was a need to turn down the lights for a time of waiting for The Spirit to move. I would respond with, “I thought we were ‘Children Of Light!”

Although I maintain that there is not preacher and/or theologian that I will agree with down the line, yet Frank comes closest to having a similar perspective. Nevertheless, I will endeavor to give an un-biased review.

The documentation is scholarly and no doubt abridged from a complete work, yet enough information submitted to slow me down from a fast read. Some pages made up with half in footnotes!

To be honest, even though the word pagan is part of the title, the over use becomes depreciative in itself to those church practices that are the issue of discussion. Some times where it is used is not applicable.

Chapter Two is the issue of the Church Building and today’s believers having a fixation even need for the structure itself. Emphasis is made on the word Church meaning the building itself. Referring to the meaning of the original word in the Greek being ekklesia meaning a group assembled. From there to building on those assemblies held in homes that through the centuries found them selves in Cathedrals.

Time and words describing the development of Holy Places and things that became important parts of these magnificent edifices. Then to Constantine Whether he was, a Christian has been the subject of many discourses over the centuries, giving legitimacy to the Christians along with promoting and funding these grand displays of architecture.

A lot of history is on review as the Eucharist, clothing, music, architecture, thrones, steeples, even the pulpit, pews and balcony, borrowed from the cultures and customs through those centuries to today.

Chapter Three brings us to the order of Worship with Sunday mornings set in concrete of Tradition. Frank points out that the standard order is held in the same way in all of the churches today with only minute differences. Viola writes,

You can scour your Bible from beginning to end, and you will never find anything that remotely resembles our order of worship.

He then goes on and describes the contributions to that order made by an impressive group of historical Church leaders. He includes well-known personalities, as Luther, Zwingli, Calvin and company, the Puritans, D. L. Moody, and the Pentecostals.

Chapter Four and we come to “The Sermon”, he dubs ‘Protestantism’s Most Sacred Cow!’ Granting that people preached all through the Bible, yet he contends, not like it is done today giving a thorough explanation of the differences. Naming the contributors to the development and how sermonizing harms the assembly of believers. Frank then wraps it up with the focus of the early church not being the sermon, but the gathering and functioning of Christ’s Body Jesus being its Head.

Chapter Five Frank hones in on The Pastor and being the obstacle to every member functioning. The fundamental figure of The Protestant Church, the Pastor …

is often better known, more highly praised, and more heavily relied on than Jesus Christ Himself!

Pointing out that the word ‘Pastor’ is used one time, in Ephesians 4:11;

a scanty piece of evidence on which to hang the Protestant Faith. In this regard there seems to be more biblical authority for snake handling, (See Mark 16:18 and Acts 28:3-6) than there is for the present-day pastor.

Continuing to the word ‘Priest’ used three times in the New Testament and the same error The Catholic Church makes, with every reference to all Christians.

The word Pastor is a function not a title and Frank goes on to explain where the title came from. He takes you through Constantine, the Reformation, From Presbyter to Priest and then from Priest to pastor, in a detailed history, with all the ramifications.

Chapter Six and we have Sunday Morning Costumes. It is a brief Chapter on Dressing Up for Church and the why or why not to. Then describes the ‘what and why’ of Clergy Dress.

Chapter Seven and how the Music Ministry originates and another hierarchy of Clergy.

Chapter Eight speaks to Tithing and how it is not spelled out for Christians in the New Testament, Clergy Compensation and how both hurt the pocketbook. Giving is from the heart and many times not limited to ‘Just A Tithe’.

Chapter Nine and looking to The Diluting of The Sacraments, specifically Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. An explanation how “The Sinner’s Prayer’ Replaced Baptism employed only recently by D. L. Moody. The Lord’s Supper originated as a festive banquet alive and joyful and lost was the concrete picture of The Body and Blood, which developed into study, and debate of abstract and metaphysical thought.

Chapter Ten brings us to the Education and being the Qualification to Minister the Gospel with the Scriptural examples showed each one learning the essentials of Christian Ministry by living a shared life in the Body and being tutored by seasoned believers. Viola takes the tour through the Four Stages of Theological Education and Aquinas’s contributions and influence.

Chapter Eleven ‘Re-approaches’ the New Testament systematically with order and understanding from Viola’s Perspective and in Chapter Twelve is a second Glance at The Savior, introducing Jesus, The Revolutionary.

Frank finishes with an Afterword: The next Step, Final Thoughts: Q & A with Frank Viola and George Barna, Summary of Origins, Key Figures in Church History and Bibliography.

Again I have to say that it was not an easy and/or fast read for me. Many areas that I would not endorse one hundred percent, as I have found no one that I see eye to eye in all arenas, yet I recommend a thorough perusing, should you have any questions about the way Church is held today!

D. P. Gatten, D. Min. ©2008

Saturday, March 15, 2008

Thoughts ~ Philippian Stop Sign

As I continue to write, I periodically Mention “The Philippian Stop Sign” and how importantly it becomes, as I seek direction and Revelation. Many times there is a necessity to recapitulate how I come across some of theses Jewels that are a part of my walk with The Living GOD! Please understand that this is not from “The Gnostic Mindset”, But as The HOLY SPIRIT Reveals.



Times past it is just to give credit to the Individual that the tidbit comes from, though that is not always the case and /or necessary. In fact in my conversations with HIM, I have even repented for going on as if the revelation was given directly to me, and was told, “Where Do You Think That They Got It From, To Begin With?!”



In this case, I want to back up and introduce you to one of my dear friends, who has been at times a subtle Mentor (Humbly, not suggesting that what he had to say had any purpose.) and many times one used to allow me to make quantum leaps in Faith.



Of course we share many trips where we have been (You might say,) hand in hand, as GOD has spoke to both of us through both of us. Oh, before I pass it by, his name is Doug.




I will start this writing with a perspective he gave me over thirty years ago, that though it was beyond my understanding at the time has allowed me to interact with so many of my brethren over the years.



Picture if you can a Dumbbell with two round hollow balls at each end of a hollow tube. You are in one ball (Your World) looking through the hollow tube at any other person in (Their World) the other ball. The only thing one may see of the other ball (Through The Tube.) is very limited and visa versa. Somewhat resembling 'The Shadows' of Plato’s “Cave Allegory”, Another Subject For Another Time!”



In other words, one cannot really understand the uniqueness of another’s Perspective of the physical Realm to begin with, let alone Spiritual Understanding. Oh yes, from what we can see, we can agree on many aspects of the worlds (Balls) of others, especially if we want to.



My Question at the time was how can I be sure that what I am doing at any time, is the perfect Will of God? This was a quandary for many years for me, as another perspective Doug used was that he chose not to believe anything that was not revealed by The Spirit of God! This included many verses of Scripture that I had wrapped up with a bow and made my own. (Emphasis Mine!)



Nevertheless, several years ago, as I was questioning him again, out of the Blue he referred to ‘The Philippian Stop Sign” and the assurance it afforded.



So if you are ready let us take that Mystical Trip that Paul explains in the third Chapter of Philippians. I will use the New King James Version for this explanation.



Paul’s exhortation is to not to have any confidence in the flesh and you have to admit that this has been … the norm for The Traditional Church to have us major in. Nevertheless, Paul goes on to explain one of the main reasons is so that we may Fellowship in our LORD’s Sufferings.



Keep in mind that these words we have mouthed over the centuries. The Goal is to attain to the resurrection from the dead. This is something that is ongoing in the here and now! Phil. 3: 10 & 11. Paul has tasted something that is sweet … maybe flavorful would be a better word. In that morsel is the promise of even more of the same. Now at the same time, as Socrates’ philosophers are blinded by the sun when coming out of the cave and their former cave neighbors now think they are crazy, they can now see and describe what are no longer shadows. Paul is doing his best to encourage The Philippians, as well as us today to partake of what has been placed before us.



No way is Paul bragging or elevating himself, more than likely savoring the pain of Christ’s Suffering, he continues in the 12th verse with:

Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

He is continuing in what he now knows he has been called to and he, also has a need/desire to grasp even more.
[13] Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, [14] I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Allow me to leave the significance of partaking of “The Suffering” and address the Philippian Stop Sign. As we learn to “PRESS In” to that goal, we KNOW that we are on that ‘Path’ and we have what is called, “The Mind Of Christ”:
1 Cor. 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

This Maturity, Perfection is on going process that still brings us to the place of absolute assurance of our walk and we know:
[Phil. 3:15] Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

(This Is The Stop Sign, should it be used.) It now becomes GOD’s right, … job, … and even pleasure to straighten us out! The rest of the Chapter Paul’s Exhortation is again to imitate him, as he imitates Christ. (1 Cor. 4:16; 1 Cor. 11:1;)

Take the time to allow the last six verses to speak to you in that very special way and I will stop here so I can post this to the Blog.

Now no doubt there will be some of you who will not see it this way and all I can do is to encourage you to continue to look down that “Hollow Tube” and wonder until you become a Partaker of HIS Kingdom Now!
Be Blessed, 1 aka DP © 2008

Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Time Flies ... When you are having Fun!

Need to put something together to feed the Botts, IYKWIM?

Last week end the Wife of my youth and me Traveled up the 99 to my sisters house, so we could spend Friday evening with one of our Spiritual Sons who lives with his family in Modesto. It was great seeing how some of the spiritual perspectives and practices are still a part of their lives and ministries.

And we spent Saturday with another Spiritual Son, who is here from The Republic Of Belarus in the former USSR.

DenO is on assignment from his company who is subbing out work from Google and will be heading home to Minsk next Saturday!

I will be writing about our blessing with DenO from our trip in 1995 later on when I start the second year.

It has been 2 years since we have seen him and it was great to spend the day with him. My Sister went with us and we had a great lunch at the Red Robin and then it was the ladies pleasure to go shopping with him for his 3 year old, as I tried to not look bored.

We discussed the many different aspects of our relationship. In addition, how we prayed with him and were a part of him becoming a faithful servant of our Lord!

We had Pizza for diner and then bid him adieu, for a short season. He will return in a couple weeks hopefully with wife and daughter. Looking forward to seeing all of them.

I will be back later today with a little Revenue generator and next week with more Ministry!

Sunday, March 2, 2008

Another Cowboy Missionary! ~ ~ ~ ~ Trip To Moldova Part 5.

Mix could speak English and told us that he had been playing Country & Western (i.e. Cowboy Music) in the Saint Petersburg clubs, when he accepted Christ as his savior. Later I explained, even to Pat, as he was a generation younger than I that there was Tom Mix the famous Movie star called “The Singing Sheriff’ crossing over from silent screen into “The Talkies”. (See Olive Stokes Mix’s Bio of “The Fabulous Tom Mix)”

We became friends with him and gave him some of the books. Before we left, we traded telephone numbers with him and promised to stay in touch. A couple months later, he called and told us that he was going to be in Minsk and would like to see us. He had contacted the WOF office and they were going to give him some more books, for his outreach down south.

Down South … … … I have to throw this in here.

The Wife of my youth, when she came back with me in 1995 and I had learned our Survival Russian with apparently the local Accent, as there was not any laughing, when we tried. Even to questioning us about saying, that we did not understand Russian. The boys told Pat and me, on our way back to Minsk that the Russian spoken in Moldova had a different sound to it, compared to that in Belarus. Pat and I noticed that and referred to them having a Southern Accent. Of course, we had to explain the different … almost dialects spoken in the States.

I am not sure when ‘Caller ID’ came out here in the States, Nevertheless, Never seeing it before at home, I was impressed to see our hostess and her son look at the telephone to check who was calling before answering it. That was the only area seen and only in Chisinau that the former USSR was ahead of us in technology.

Our hostess, as I wrote about earlier, made sure we were home in the evening or made sure we knew to go about getting there, when we wanted to continue with what we were doing at “Sun Down”. She parked her car in a garage she had rented, as you did not leave your vehicle on the streets if you wanted to keep it whole!

We never question what she did during those hours and she never spoke about it herself.

One evening (Apparently a night off.) as we all were having dinner; she started questioning Pat and I about our calling and finally around to our families, as the boys interpreted for us. She was ok with Pat’s wife and family being in Minsk and we would be returning within the week. Nevertheless, when she found out that my wife was in the States and I had committed to three to six months of being there, (It wound up to being four.) she really got into the Questioning. She wanted to know what was wrong, and I had to work hard at convincing her that we were happily married, with Pat confirming what I said. Best be it known to you, that I was extra sure of never being alone with her. Pat teased me about it several times and back in Minsk, we could laugh about it. It sure was not funny at the time.

We had accomplished quite a bit and were satisfied that the mission was fulfilled and that our successful quests for contacts were made for the Saws eventual return.


Our hostess took us to the train Station and we thank her with additional cash. We said our good byes with a handshake and we boarded for our twenty-two hour return to Minsk, as I was relieved.



Next week More Ministry in Minsk.



Be blessed, 1 ©2008

Saturday, March 1, 2008

What kind of Christian are you? (Thanks Gene!)

Loved Of The LORD, When I saw this title on "Blogosphere" I was "HOOKED" and was Reeled in Expecting to see a big finger wagging at me.
I was taken for sure! Nevertheless, Gene Brooks had just taken a questionair called the 'Inclusive Christian Scale' .
Well I had to take it my self and Gene beat me at being a Christian hands down!
Here is my score:

EVANGELICAL: 89 % CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE: 74 % ACTIVIST: 26 % GOLDEN RULE: 81 % COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT: 69 % MYSTIC: 67 %

Try the assessment for yourself.

And go visit Gene to get the whole low down see how bad ... /good he beat me. ;-)


OK Back to the 'Salt Mines' to ready the next post on 'The Book' tomorrow!
Luv Ya, 1 aka DP